On Sunday, 24 December 2017 01:13:49 UTC, Charles Ellson wrote:-
On Sun, 24 Dec 2017 00:54:47 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 07:23:09 +0000 (GMT+00:00), tolly57
Boundary of TfL ownership? I presume Taplow will be it.
*Ownership* boundary will be near Royal Oak. Station responsibility
will be Taplow (Slough stays with GWR).
Zone 6 is currently West Drayton for Oyster and Freedom Pass
holders, I assume an extension ticket will be required for onward
travel to Reading then?
Freedom Pass/60+ Oyster holders only need a valid ticket of some type
for the extended journey as no touch in/out or stopping of the train
is required at the boundary station. PAYG Oyster needs a touch in/out
at both ends of the journey within the Oyster zones to prevent a
maximum fare being created.-
True, but I don't think we know yet how far west the Freedom Pass wil
when the Elizabeth line opens: West Drayton, Taplow, or somewhere in
between? And what zone(s) will the new stations be in for Oyster?
Based on the current arrangements for FP/60+, "how far" is probably as
far as the GLA regards as reasonable (see also Swanley and Dartford)
to support GL residents going off-patch. West Drayton is the last bit
of the GL conurbation, Iver is in comparative countryside so Langley
or Slough would seem to be natural choices while anything west of
Slough is arguably a trip into the countryside beyond. For paid Oyster
it might be whatever the system can support, maybe in conjunction with
sorting the anomoly which is going to result if/when Watford (Met)
services (zone 7) are diverted to Watford Junction (zone 9 and
Not really a decision for the GLA. It's for London Councils t
determine as they co-ordinate the Borough's funding for concessionar
travel. Until TfL determine the fare levels that will apply and som
sort of demand forecast then the "revenue foregone" can't be calculated
Only then can London Councils determine if the cost can or should b
funded. The 60+ Pass is funded by TfL but its availability follows wha
is set for the Freedom Pass. The fact the FP reaches Dartford an
Watford is largely an accident of history. Crossrail is rather differen
(IMO) and the potential revenue impact (given how high fares are t
Reading) greater plus there are issues of perceived fairness - wh
should London residents gain free travel so far to the west bu
Berkshire residents get nothing?
The other factor with the 60+ Pass is the growing number of people wh
are entitled to it and the spiralling cost to TfL. There are hug
pressures on TfL's budget to 2020 and beyond so there may be good reaso
not to expand its coverage and all the attendant cost.
Not sure I understand the earlier comments about "TfL empire building"
The transfer of stations between TOCs has been happening sinc
franchising starting. The transfer of some, but not all, stations fo
stopping services in West London just reflects what has been agreed wit
the DfT as to what Crossrail will operate. It is noteworthy that th
stations that have national rail fare setting rules (Slough, Reading
remain with GWR so they're in charge of pricing for the route. Again n
doubt a DfT demand as with other transfers to TfL - Shenfield didn'
transfer nor did Cheshunt. In similar vein Dartford remains with Sout
Eastern despite Oyster ticketing eventually being extended there. Th
stations remaining with GWR also reflect the existence of other rai
services (branches) or longer distance trains stopping.
I think all the "mood music" has been that Oyster PAYG / contactles
will reach Reading but don't expect any clever "zones" or stuff lik
that. With the restructured Oyster system each station should be capable
of being individually priced rather than grouped as has happened in the
past. We may also see some past pricing compromises being removed once
the new system is fully operational. I also wonder quite what will
happen with daily / 7 day capping and maximum fares given the high fares
that apply beyond the normal T/Card boundary. We may see the first signs
of fare adjustments in May 2018 when the Heathrow service starts and
Oyster / CPC is extended there.
TfL's operations also extend to Epping which is way outside
the Greater London Area. Does the 60+ pass extend to Epping?
My Freedom Pass does. It also allows me to go to Cheshunt as
long as I use TfL Rail.
TfL's empire building refers primarily to the ambition to take
control of suburban services in South London, even though
that would inevitably have a huge impact on services from
further afield. It also takes in their determination to have a
major say in the allocation of train paths between Paddington
and Reading. I haven't bothered to keep up, but several months
ago I did come across some blogs where Berkshire commuters
were indignant about TfL's territorial ambitions.
Although instinctively reluctant to be generous to TfL, I do assume
they were not party to Mr. Khan's ludicrous suggestion some time
ago that he should take over the Southern services as he had
some magical mediating skills which could resolve the dispute