Discussion:
Partially pedestrianised Oxford St in 2018
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Recliner
2017-11-06 15:34:16 UTC
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<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-41878406>
Offramp
2017-11-07 08:34:24 UTC
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Post by Recliner
<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-41878406>
That's a good idea, possibly the best solution. Ped-precinct only from Baker St/Selfridges to Regent St. The biggest problem is where all those buses will go.

This is a bad idea: "An 800m-long work of public art could be commissioned". Sounds like a waste of time, space and money.
Neil Williams
2017-11-07 09:50:48 UTC
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Post by Offramp
Post by Recliner
<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-41878406>
That's a good idea, possibly the best solution. Ped-precinct only from
Baker St/Selfridges to Regent St. The biggest problem is where all
those buses will go.
This is a bad idea: "An 800m-long work of public art could be
commissioned". Sounds like a waste of time, space and money.
I reckon a tram down the middle would work fine just as it does in
Manchester. I also think it could do with a narrow (one abreast in
each direction) cycleway down the middle.

Neil
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tim...
2017-11-07 09:57:18 UTC
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Post by Neil Williams
Post by Offramp
Post by Recliner
<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-41878406>
That's a good idea, possibly the best solution. Ped-precinct only from
Baker St/Selfridges to Regent St. The biggest problem is where all those
buses will go.
This is a bad idea: "An 800m-long work of public art could be
commissioned". Sounds like a waste of time, space and money.
I reckon a tram down the middle would work fine just as it does in
Manchester. I also think it could do with a narrow (one abreast in each
direction) cycleway down the middle.
problem with a tram down the middle is that you have to have another 10
miles at either end to make it worthwhile

Busses don't run down OS just to serve Oxford street, they do as as the the
main E-W thoroughfare to use as part of their longer route

tim
Post by Neil Williams
Neil
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Robin
2017-11-07 10:10:09 UTC
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  I also think it could do with a narrow (one abreast in each
direction) cycleway down the middle.
With the cyclists having priority over pedestrians who want to cross the
road?

With kerbs to confine cyclists (which become a trip hazard for
pedestrians) or just paint on the road?

With the same level of enforcement faced by cyclists on pavements - ie
none unless in exceptional circumstances (which appears to mean
something like "if you kill or seriously injure someone")?

With provision for parking for cycles outside Selfridges, M&S, etc etc?
(I know cyclists can walk bikes through a pedestrianised area but I
question whether Oxford Street traders want to encourage that rather
than a "park and walk" approach.)
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Robin
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Neil Williams
2017-11-07 13:55:45 UTC
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With the cyclists having priority over pedestrians who want to cross the road?
With zebra crossings.
With kerbs to confine cyclists (which become a trip hazard for
pedestrians) or just paint on the road?
Kerbs (people don't trip over them elsewhere, what a silly statemen) or
bollards would do.
With provision for parking for cycles outside Selfridges, M&S, etc etc?
(I know cyclists can walk bikes through a pedestrianised area but I
question whether Oxford Street traders want to encourage that rather
than a "park and walk" approach.)
If there's demand for it, why not?

Neil
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Neil Williams
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Robin
2017-11-07 14:52:07 UTC
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Post by Neil Williams
With the cyclists having priority over pedestrians who want to cross the road?
With zebra crossings.
"We've abolished the bottle necks of controlled crossings!"

"But we've reintroduced the fun of scrums as cyclists try to negotiate
never-ending streams of pedestrians."
Post by Neil Williams
With kerbs to confine cyclists (which become a trip hazard for
pedestrians) or just paint on the road?
Kerbs (people don't trip over them elsewhere, what a silly statemen) or
bollards would do.
They are a trip hazard when *within* a pedestrianised zone.

What you want patently isn't a pedestrianised zone. It's a road,
restricted to pedal cycles, with 2 wide footways.
Post by Neil Williams
With provision for parking for cycles outside Selfridges, M&S, etc
etc? (I know cyclists can walk bikes through a pedestrianised area but
I question whether Oxford Street traders want to encourage that rather
than a "park and walk" approach.)
If there's demand for it, why not?
And demand from pedestrians doesn't count?
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Robin
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Neil Williams
2017-11-07 15:44:22 UTC
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Post by Robin
What you want patently isn't a pedestrianised zone. It's a road,
restricted to pedal cycles, with 2 wide footways.
If you'd like to call it that, yes.
Post by Robin
And demand from pedestrians doesn't count?
Demand to exclude others is not something I tend to give much credence
to, TBH. Two very wide kerbs with a cycle road about 7' wide down the
middle would give plenty of circulating space.

Neil
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Robin
2017-11-07 16:23:00 UTC
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Post by Neil Williams
What you want patently isn't a pedestrianised zone.   It's a road,
restricted to pedal cycles, with 2 wide footways.
If you'd like to call it that, yes.
And demand from pedestrians doesn't count?
Demand to exclude others is not something I tend to give much credence
to, TBH.
So you don't give much credence to the demand to exclude motor vehicles?

Two very wide kerbs with a cycle road about 7' wide down the
Post by Neil Williams
middle would give plenty of circulating space.
It's a funny meaning of "circulating space" that allows you to move
freely East-West but constrains you North-South.

But the consultation is open to all so you are of course free to lobby
against eg their "raise the existing carriageway to be flush with the
footways thus removing obstacles for disabled people and people
with buggies" and the concepts in their artist's impressions of
centrally placed seating and lighting.
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Robin
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Neil Williams
2017-11-08 10:28:08 UTC
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Post by Robin
So you don't give much credence to the demand to exclude motor vehicles?
Motor vehicles are a wier issue in London.
Post by Robin
It's a funny meaning of "circulating space" that allows you to move
freely East-West but constrains you North-South.
Hardly much of a constraint.
Post by Robin
But the consultation is open to all so you are of course free to lobby
against eg their "raise the existing carriageway to be flush with the
footways thus removing obstacles for disabled people and people
with buggies" and the concepts in their artist's impressions of
centrally placed seating and lighting.
You've heard of dropped kerbs?

Neil
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Tony Dragon
2017-11-07 15:02:26 UTC
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Post by Neil Williams
With the cyclists having priority over pedestrians who want to cross the road?
With zebra crossings.
With kerbs to confine cyclists (which become a trip hazard for
pedestrians) or just paint on the road?
Kerbs (people don't trip over them elsewhere, what a silly statemen) or
bollards would do.
With provision for parking for cycles outside Selfridges, M&S, etc
etc? (I know cyclists can walk bikes through a pedestrianised area but
I question whether Oxford Street traders want to encourage that rather
than a "park and walk" approach.)
If there's demand for it, why not?
Neil
There's a demand to allow parking outside Selfridges, should we allow that?

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Neil Williams
2017-11-07 15:45:06 UTC
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Post by Tony Dragon
There's a demand to allow parking outside Selfridges, should we allow that?
There isn't enough land for that, unlike a narrow cycleway. If
Selfridges wish to build an underground car park on their premises I
can't see why I would object to that.

Neil
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Basil Jet
2017-11-07 16:01:01 UTC
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Post by Tony Dragon
There's a demand to allow parking outside Selfridges, should we allow that?
There isn't enough land for that, unlike a narrow cycleway.  If
Selfridges wish to build an underground car park on their premises I
can't see why I would object to that.
Selfridges has a car park inside the building above ground level,
whereas the delivery bays appear to be beneath the building.
d***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-11-07 10:21:22 UTC
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Post by Neil Williams
Post by Offramp
This is a bad idea: "An 800m-long work of public art could be
commissioned". Sounds like a waste of time, space and money.
I expect the garden bridge team could reconvene quite quickly.
Post by Neil Williams
I reckon a tram down the middle would work fine just as it does in
Manchester. I also think it could do with a narrow (one abreast in
each direction) cycleway down the middle.
Only if the cycleway has a fence either side of it, otherwise the
blighters will be straying off and zigzagging around it with impunity.
As proposed no cycles to be ridden in the area at all makes it easier
to enforce, preferably with an AK47.


G.Harman
Tim Woodall
2017-11-07 11:01:23 UTC
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Post by Neil Williams
I also think it could do with a narrow (one abreast in
each direction) cycleway down the middle.
I disagree. If there is a cycleway then it has to be wide enough for
cyclists to miss pedestrians who will step out infront of them.
Neil Williams
2017-11-07 13:56:04 UTC
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Post by Tim Woodall
I disagree. If there is a cycleway then it has to be wide enough for
cyclists to miss pedestrians who will step out infront of them.
They have brakes, don't they?

Neil
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Neil Williams
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Roland Perry
2017-11-07 14:08:15 UTC
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Post by Neil Williams
Post by Tim Woodall
I disagree. If there is a cycleway then it has to be wide enough for
cyclists to miss pedestrians who will step out infront of them.
They have brakes, don't they?
Famously, not always. Or was that your point?
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Roland Perry
Basil Jet
2017-11-07 15:37:31 UTC
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Post by Neil Williams
I reckon a tram down the middle would work fine
With depot where?

(Not a serious suggestion... but the unused space under Kingsway could
be a tram depot...)
Tony Dragon
2017-11-07 19:54:02 UTC
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Post by Neil Williams
Post by Offramp
Post by Recliner
<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-41878406>
That's a good idea, possibly the best solution. Ped-precinct only from
Baker St/Selfridges to Regent St. The biggest problem is where all
those buses will go.
This is a bad idea: "An 800m-long work of public art could be
commissioned". Sounds like a waste of time, space and money.
I reckon a tram down the middle would work fine just as it does in
Manchester.  I also think it could do with a narrow (one abreast in each
direction) cycleway down the middle.
Neil
No, just make it a pedestrian zone, but allow delivery vehicles after
midnight until, perhaps 6am.

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