Discussion:
Crossrail's journey-time benefits
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Recliner
2018-06-10 12:02:48 UTC
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Diamond Geezer has tested journey times through central London on the
existing network, and compared them to what Crossrail will offer in
six months time. Not surprisingly, the benefits are very variable:

<http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/2018/06/crossrail-minus-six.html>
Roland Perry
2018-06-10 12:09:38 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Diamond Geezer has tested journey times through central London on the
existing network, and compared them to what Crossrail will offer in
<http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/2018/06/crossrail-minus-six.html>
Crossrail's benefit is greater capacity - when did people start adding
"also faster" to that?
--
Roland Perry
tim...
2018-06-10 15:17:10 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Diamond Geezer has tested journey times through central London on the
existing network, and compared them to what Crossrail will offer in
<http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/2018/06/crossrail-minus-six.html>
Crossrail's benefit is greater capacity - when did people start adding
"also faster" to that?
well obviously it's going to be faster if you measure a direct journey on CR
with one requiring a change on the the underground.

you could do exactly the same trick with the Victoria or Jubilee lines when
they were opened.

tim
Recliner
2018-06-10 15:38:47 UTC
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Post by tim...
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Diamond Geezer has tested journey times through central London on the
existing network, and compared them to what Crossrail will offer in
<http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/2018/06/crossrail-minus-six.html>
Crossrail's benefit is greater capacity - when did people start adding
"also faster" to that?
well obviously it's going to be faster if you measure a direct journey on CR
with one requiring a change on the the underground.
you could do exactly the same trick with the Victoria or Jubilee lines when
they were opened.
And one of the reasons to use Crossrail in central London is when it
provides easier, faster or more direct journeys than the existing network.
Roland Perry
2018-06-10 16:05:54 UTC
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Post by tim...
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Diamond Geezer has tested journey times through central London on the
existing network, and compared them to what Crossrail will offer in
<http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/2018/06/crossrail-minus-six.html>
Crossrail's benefit is greater capacity - when did people start
adding "also faster" to that?
well obviously it's going to be faster if you measure a direct journey
on CR with one requiring a change on the the underground.
Hold on. Isn't the blog referred to saying that faster times are not
actually the case.
--
Roland Perry
tim...
2018-06-10 18:53:17 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim...
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Diamond Geezer has tested journey times through central London on the
existing network, and compared them to what Crossrail will offer in
<http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/2018/06/crossrail-minus-six.html>
Crossrail's benefit is greater capacity - when did people start adding
"also faster" to that?
well obviously it's going to be faster if you measure a direct journey on
CR with one requiring a change on the the underground.
Hold on. Isn't the blog referred to saying that faster times are not
actually the case.
No (with one exception)

well not if you exclude the time getting to the platform, anyway

I presume, that as is the case for the for the Jubilee, it's been shoehorned
into the gaps below the other lines and that times to the platforms from the
station entrances are longer than average for the rest of the "underground"

tim
Post by Roland Perry
--
Roland Perry
Richard J.
2018-06-10 20:26:29 UTC
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Post by tim...
Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim...
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Diamond Geezer has tested journey times through central London on the
existing network, and compared them to what Crossrail will offer in
<http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/2018/06/crossrail-minus-six.html>
Crossrail's benefit is greater capacity - when did people start adding
"also faster" to that?
well obviously it's going to be faster if you measure a direct journey on
CR with one requiring a change on the the underground.
Hold on. Isn't the blog referred to saying that faster times are not
actually the case.
No (with one exception)
well not if you exclude the time getting to the platform, anyway
I presume, that as is the case for the for the Jubilee, it's been shoehorned
into the gaps below the other lines and that times to the platforms from the
station entrances are longer than average for the rest of the "underground"
tim
It depends on the station. At Paddington, Crossrail is under Eastbourne Terrace, so probably no deeper than other deep tube lines. At Tottenham Court Road, it runs ABOVE the Northern Line tunnels.

The platforms are much longer than other tube tunnels in London. They are designed to take trains up to 240m long, though initially a 9-car Class 345 is 200m long. That compares, for example, with 8-car trains on the Victoria line being 133m long. So at stations like Bond Street, with exits at the current Bond Street station and also at Hanover Square, if you're at the wrong end of the train for your destination, you may have another 200m to walk.
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Basil Jet
2018-06-11 13:30:34 UTC
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Post by tim...
Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim...
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Diamond Geezer has tested journey times through central London on the
existing network, and compared them to what Crossrail will offer in
<http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/2018/06/crossrail-minus-six.html>
Crossrail's benefit is greater capacity - when did people start
adding "also faster" to that?
well obviously it's going to be faster if you measure a direct
journey on CR with one requiring a change on the the underground.
Hold on. Isn't the blog referred to saying that faster times are not
actually the case.
No (with one exception)
well not if you exclude the time getting to the platform, anyway
I presume, that as is the case for the for the Jubilee, it's been
shoehorned into the gaps below the other lines and that times to the
platforms from the station entrances are longer than average for the
rest of the "underground"
Not really.

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Recliner
2018-06-10 20:43:33 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim...
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Diamond Geezer has tested journey times through central London on the
existing network, and compared them to what Crossrail will offer in
<http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/2018/06/crossrail-minus-six.html>
Crossrail's benefit is greater capacity - when did people start
adding "also faster" to that?
well obviously it's going to be faster if you measure a direct journey
on CR with one requiring a change on the the underground.
Hold on. Isn't the blog referred to saying that faster times are not
actually the case.
No, that's not what Mr Geezer found. As I said, he found that the benefits
were very variable.
Roland Perry
2018-06-12 07:18:10 UTC
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<2145239513.550355720.424944.recliner.ng-***@news.eternal-sept
ember.org>, at 20:43:33 on Sun, 10 Jun 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim...
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Diamond Geezer has tested journey times through central London on the
existing network, and compared them to what Crossrail will offer in
<http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/2018/06/crossrail-minus-six.html>
Crossrail's benefit is greater capacity - when did people start
adding "also faster" to that?
well obviously it's going to be faster if you measure a direct journey
on CR with one requiring a change on the the underground.
Hold on. Isn't the blog referred to saying that faster times are not
actually the case.
No, that's not what Mr Geezer found. As I said, he found that the benefits
were very variable.
As Tim says, adding the platform-surface times are going to even it out
a lot. I wonder if trips like Kings Cross to Paddington will be any
quicker once you've factored in the change at Farringdon, or will people
be expected to continue grinding their way along via Edgware Rd?
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2018-06-12 08:34:51 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
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ember.org>, at 20:43:33 on Sun, 10 Jun 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim...
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Diamond Geezer has tested journey times through central London on the
existing network, and compared them to what Crossrail will offer in
<http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/2018/06/crossrail-minus-six.html>
Crossrail's benefit is greater capacity - when did people start
adding "also faster" to that?
well obviously it's going to be faster if you measure a direct journey
on CR with one requiring a change on the the underground.
Hold on. Isn't the blog referred to saying that faster times are not
actually the case.
No, that's not what Mr Geezer found. As I said, he found that the benefits
were very variable.
As Tim says, adding the platform-surface times are going to even it out
a lot. I wonder if trips like Kings Cross to Paddington will be any
quicker once you've factored in the change at Farringdon, or will people
be expected to continue grinding their way along via Edgware Rd?
The latter, I'd have thought. It's only a 10 minute ride on the Circle or
H&C lines.
Someone Somewhere
2018-06-12 08:49:03 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
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ember.org>, at 20:43:33 on Sun, 10 Jun 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim...
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Diamond Geezer has tested journey times through central London on the
existing network, and compared them to what Crossrail will offer in
<http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/2018/06/crossrail-minus-six.html>
Crossrail's benefit is greater capacity - when did people start
adding "also faster" to that?
well obviously it's going to be faster if you measure a direct journey
on CR with one requiring a change on the the underground.
Hold on. Isn't the blog referred to saying that faster times are not
actually the case.
No, that's not what Mr Geezer found. As I said, he found that the benefits
were very variable.
As Tim says, adding the platform-surface times are going to even it out
a lot. I wonder if trips like Kings Cross to Paddington will be any
quicker once you've factored in the change at Farringdon, or will people
be expected to continue grinding their way along via Edgware Rd?
The latter, I'd have thought. It's only a 10 minute ride on the Circle or
H&C lines.
Why does everything on the H&C line always seem to take far longer than
it should do though? Whitechapel to Paddington should be 25minutes I
think, but I increasingly leave at least 45 minutes (plus another 15 to
buy a ticket at Paddington and get to the platforms) for the journey.

Tellingly, even TfL frequently suggest taking an alternative,
non-direct, route.

At least, finally, Crossrail will resolve the oddity of how poorly
served the "corner" is between Liverpool St and Aldgate East - a Zone 1
single stop link with a single bus route and 5 trains an hour (or
whatever it is now).
Recliner
2018-06-12 09:52:30 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
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ember.org>, at 20:43:33 on Sun, 10 Jun 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim...
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Diamond Geezer has tested journey times through central London on the
existing network, and compared them to what Crossrail will offer in
<http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/2018/06/crossrail-minus-six.html>
Crossrail's benefit is greater capacity - when did people start
adding "also faster" to that?
well obviously it's going to be faster if you measure a direct journey
on CR with one requiring a change on the the underground.
Hold on. Isn't the blog referred to saying that faster times are not
actually the case.
No, that's not what Mr Geezer found. As I said, he found that the benefits
were very variable.
As Tim says, adding the platform-surface times are going to even it out
a lot. I wonder if trips like Kings Cross to Paddington will be any
quicker once you've factored in the change at Farringdon, or will people
be expected to continue grinding their way along via Edgware Rd?
The latter, I'd have thought. It's only a 10 minute ride on the Circle or
H&C lines.
Why does everything on the H&C line always seem to take far longer than
it should do though? Whitechapel to Paddington should be 25minutes I
think, but I increasingly leave at least 45 minutes (plus another 15 to
buy a ticket at Paddington and get to the platforms) for the journey.
I think 25 minutes would be very optimistic. Journey Planners reckon the
actual ride takes 26 minutes, and I think the H&C is only a 6 tph service
(so you could have a 10 minute wait). Then you have the longish walk at the
Paddington end to get into the mainline station.

The Crossrail Journey Planner says it'll be a 13 minute journey (plus the
station walks at each end), and the services through the core will be more
frequent, so it should save 15-20 minutes on the overall journey time.
Roland Perry
2018-06-12 12:26:26 UTC
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<420012594.550484970.487160.recliner.ng-***@news.eternal-septe
mber.org>, at 08:34:51 on Tue, 12 Jun 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
As Tim says, adding the platform-surface times are going to even it out
a lot. I wonder if trips like Kings Cross to Paddington will be any
quicker once you've factored in the change at Farringdon, or will people
be expected to continue grinding their way along via Edgware Rd?
The latter, I'd have thought. It's only a 10 minute ride on the Circle or
H&C lines.
I usually get the H&C, but they've rebuilt the station entrance even
further away from the main station, and it only really works if you've
already got a ticket and don't need any of the concourse facilities.

Getting to the Praed St tube entrance requires a change at Edgware Road.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2018-06-12 15:03:59 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
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mber.org>, at 08:34:51 on Tue, 12 Jun 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
As Tim says, adding the platform-surface times are going to even it out
a lot. I wonder if trips like Kings Cross to Paddington will be any
quicker once you've factored in the change at Farringdon, or will people
be expected to continue grinding their way along via Edgware Rd?
The latter, I'd have thought. It's only a 10 minute ride on the Circle or
H&C lines.
I usually get the H&C, but they've rebuilt the station entrance even
further away from the main station, and it only really works if you've
already got a ticket and don't need any of the concourse facilities.
Yes, all part of the Crossrail redevelopment.
Post by Roland Perry
Getting to the Praed St tube entrance requires a change at Edgware Road.
True

Offramp
2018-06-10 16:16:00 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Diamond Geezer has tested journey times through central London on the
existing network, and compared them to what Crossrail
ERm, excuse me. It is not "Crossrail". It is called the Fuckabeth Line.
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